| I was reading the Horse Talk on the IH site the other day and saw a post that intrigued me.|
The thread was about a stallion that was dangerous, hadn't improved with gelding, and the majority of people thought the horse should be put down.
The post that I found fascinating was by Persianhorse, who lives in Iran and seems to have a lot of knowledge about horses. I was hoping that his post would be discussed but it wasn't, therefore I pm'd him to ask his permission to copy it here. Hopefully he will come here and explain more about the purpose of lying a horse down and tell us for what sort of problems he would use it.
Re: For info and a warning!
« Reply #7 on 9 Jan, 2007, 3:27am »
For this kind of problem we make the Horse to LAY DOWN this is the only way that can bring a Horse back to normal life I have experience of laying down the Horses with great problem and mental illness or better to say Killers this is the only way that we can save a horse from bullet.
If there is a way this is it .
laying a horse down is like formating a disc , it cleans the brain from all the bad memories.
The above was the starter of this topic by Brenda.
We should know everything is done by us as humans all the accidents and all the bad memories are man made horse by itself does nothing wrong we can only learn from them many accident in my point of view wont happen if learn the body language of the horse because horses tell us everything the only thing we have to do just to lessen and learn.
To LIE DOWN A HORSE:
I use this method only when all other methods wont bring back the poor horse to life and for only those horses that they have no other way back to normal life and the owners want to kill them I prefer to lie them down and don't allow them to kill the poor animal which we are the one which has done this to the animal everything is are fault.
Everything we do is NON VIOLENT all are actions are based on it please remember this because it is very crucial and important my way of thinking and the way I work is based upon ESTABLISHING TRUST and MAKING A GOOD BOND WITH THE HORSE.
Some of the works I do :
1- I know BODY LANGUAGE OF THE HORSE.
2- I IMPRINT THE HORSE from early stages of life (the moment which the foal is still on the ground and has not stand for the first time actually everything lies on that moment which you are bigger than the foal if the foal stand up there is no point in it all animal connect to something which is bigger than them self).
Actually when we lie down a horse we become bigger in my point of view everything is in the matter of being bigger than the horse itself the magic is in this to become bigger.
First we prepare the Ground the place which we want to lie down the horse on it at least 10 t0 20 inches thickness (much the better) of good footage mostly from the horse poe and hay mixed together .
First we Long Line the horse for some time so he/she gets tiered then we put a rug on the horse so the body has more protection.
We put on a jacket which we call a (STRAIT JACKET) this is a usefull tool it comes over the horse body and behind the hinds just above the hocks and in front just above the knee on the forearm when we put this on the horse we bring one of the hands up and close it to the jacket (if we bring up the right hand and close it to the jacket then the horse should lie down on the right hand side if we close the left hand then the horse should lie down on the left side it depends which arm we close on that side the horse should be lie down this is very important if it done wrong we can damage the horse all together).
When a horse comes to a situation that there is no other way than putting him/her to lie down I do it from both sides because horses should see everything from the both side because horse brain the left side has no connection with the right side like human does.
If a horse has seen an object with his/her left eye that does not mean he/she know that object you have to show him/her on the right eye too.
The moment the horse is on the ground we open the jacket but we wont let the horse head to come on the ground because the only way that he/she could stand up is when the horse head is on the ground we keep the horse head up and the neck bent.
We let the horse to kick as much as he/she likes the hands and legs must be free this is very important too.
We rub the neck the face , around the eye if we have a small boy is better to walk one or two steps on the horse withers and shoulder a place which the horse could see (this is especially good for some one which the horse had a accident or with some one which the horse had some kind of accident if we know the horse past which normally we don't know the horse history and mostly the owners or dealers they don't tell us the truth unfortunately why I never know the dealers come up with good lies mostly).
When the horse want to stand up I put the person which walked on the horse in a way when the horse wants to come up the person is on it as a rider this is important too.
It is unbelivabel how the horse changes when he/she stands for the first time it is like the first day that he/she came to life for the first time.
I do all of this in a round pen .
If there are any questions I will be glad to answer if I can .
It is my honor to answer as much as I can but sometime some people put some things which drags the subject in a different way why they do it God knows?
One of the thing that we are against and it is common in your country is CASTRATING the male horse I believe this is much worse than putting a horse which is man killer to lie down castrating a horse brings some kind of trauma to the poor horse some will say oh it is for the benefit of the horse but I will say no it is for the benefit of us and that is it.
One of the main reasons that I say it wont break the horse spirit is because if some kind of accident happens to the same horse that we have lie down the horse will get upset horse knows what has happened and he/she will get sick again by a new accident.
You have something which is done by Mr Monty Roberts called Join Up and Follow Up we have the same thing with another name we use the same rules as I know some of the Monty's but I have worked with some horse whisperers in U.S before and they use to use the same rules some of the traumas could be cured by Join Up and Follow Up and many of the horses cure by that and they don't need to lie down , lying a horse to the ground is the last act when there is no other way to bring the poor horse back to life we use this technique and REMEMBER ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE MAN MADE BELIEVE ME ALL OF THESE ARE MAN MADE PROBLEM PLEASE KEEP THIS IN MIND.
The horses that I lie down they don't give up they put the bad things behind and start a new life again and if the next day something bad happens to them they react as a normal horse as the accident goes stronger the reaction of the horse will be stronger.
First they start by showing the WHITENESS OF THE EYE AS THE WHITE GETS BIGGER IT MEANS THE HORSE HAS A BIGGER AFFECT IN HIS MIND THEREFOR WE SHOULD NOT LET THE WHITE GROW BIGGER THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BJ.
Please ask as much as you like I do not mind to answer up to my knowledge it will be my honor BJ and please ask your questions from 1 to 5 or 1 to 20 give your questions a number please .
Whisperer forgive me if I say something that was unpleasant to you at the end we all love horses.
I am one of those as I said before in my post that believe horses did not come to life for us to ride them I am totally against any competition like jumping , polo,dressage and so on I think horses are more greater than us as humans if now days we are talking about democracy we should look how they live in their herds and learn something from them I have a small clinic for curing humans which have mental disorders and some which you call AUTISM I cure them with connection with horses not only riding them but understanding the body language of the horse and try to get connected to horses especially mental connections like touching feeling the breath and so on riding comes at the very end and this riding is on walk only , I live with horses and every day I learn something new and my learning is a never ending process.
About the wheat machine as I understand the horse has no room to kick or to move is this right?
If so we have problem with this kind of method because we believe the horse has to kick as much as he/she likes to release all the aggressiveness inside (if I have used the right word) for example when a horse get the habit of kicking we cure it by letting the horse to kick as much as he/she likes.
If we want to DESENSITIZE THE EARS for example we use a long and wide wet cloth we put it on the horse ear so he/she could not remove and we rub the ears as much as they DESENSITIZE
now days with a hair dryer we do the exact thing with a hair dryer.
I have to say we do all these things right after birth we DESENSITIZE the places that human needs to work with in the future and true the life of the horse if we do this without interfering between the new born and the mother is the best, thats for sure if we do this correctly then the horse will have a better life in future because he/she must with no choice live with humans it is obvious that horses with no freedom at all live with humans but they must do everything from the start by force not by their free choice now we have to make the world a better place for them to live by our side , horses are herd animals they are social but what we do from the start we put them in a box to begin with what I am trying to say is we take their spirit by force from the start from the first day of their life they have to do everything to our liking not to their liking.
When we want to drive a car (I am not comparing cars with horses) we must reach an age mostly 18 then we must read a thick book them we have to test drive for some time them we have to pass two exams one the book the other driving this is for a car which has no spirit and has no life.
When we want to ride a horse we go normally to a stable which is belong to my dads friend and some one put us on the saddle thats all for %90 of us then as we get older we try to understand in these days God knows how many accidents can happen which could be life threatening one my lose a leg the other a broken back and on a while chair for the rest of the life and who is to blame the poor HORSE if I am wrong please tell me .
I have much more to post but I do not want my post to get too long so all could read it .
I would like to tell you what is my opinion on why and how lie down a horse works.
I am sure you all have heard of IMPRINTING when the Goslings hatched from the egg if there is no mother they will expose to a moving and bigger object like a human leg or a dog (even a predator) or something like that this process occurs widely in the animal kingdom up to my knowledge this is science .
When we lie down a horse and rub certain parts of his/her body then we put a person on top of him/her to walk some steps this is exactly just like the above and it is in the animal from its birth this is not from the animal experience the animal has it from its mother the experience which has past to the animal thousands of years ago obviously everything is experience first but when it happens generation after generation it becomes SYNGENIC.
In the wild when the gosling is with its mother and sisters and brothers it will survive but if it left alone then has less chance of surviving its the same with the horse and foal when we lie down a horse it will expose to the moving object which is bigger than him/her it will IMPRINT itself to the moving object for survival and therefor knows that it will do no harm to him/her all the fear will vanish and horse knows there will be no harm like before.
We have ot realize that all bad things that make a horse to attack people is the results of bad things that has happened and has harm the poor animal these bad memories will vanish until the next time that something bad would happen in its life.
The first thing that we do are :
We put the horse in a round pen first.
We do some communications with the horse the tool for this is Body Language and do a very deep observation.
Now the horse is ready for the Join Up and Follow Up (as you call it by this name the work which Mr: Monty Robers does) but we call this procedure another name actually we become a horse in the round pen we start a relation as horse to horse relation all based on Trust and making a good and deep bound with the horse mostly the horse does not need any lie down but only towards the person which makes that bound and establishes that trust but towards other people the horse is still the same horse but very much less fearful.
Let me bring an example for you :
Lets say I have an accident with my horse from the time of that accident whenever my horse see me realizes the accident (horses have excellent memories) whenever my horse sees me the accident comes up to his/her memory then you do the above as I said my horse after what you do in the round pen the horse will become to more positive towards you but still whenever my horse see me still that memory of that accident will come up this is what we can not get rid of unless we lie down the horse.
I hope I have explained it well.
Can you find the movie called The Horse Whisperer Played by Robert Redford ?
If you can watch the movie very carefully and then we will talk over it in detail (but be vary careful to observe all the things about the horse and human from the start because many of the things on the horse matter is very much true.
Unfortunately in the beginning of the movie the two girls do not know the body language of the horse if they would of know that accident would never happened in the first place because the horses are shouting to the girls that under our hoof is ICE but covered by snow which you (the two girls which are riding the horses) can not see.
Because not all horses with something wrong in them need to be lie down there are many problems that you can fix with many other methods for example when a horse is a kicker or pulls back or a bucker we wont put them to lie down we use other methods when a horse rears we put GOGGLES ON and fix that problem we wont lie him/her down.
When a horse has come to the end of his/her life and we do not know anything about his/her past and no one could go near her/him and we use all the methods and they wont work we use the lie down as a last resort to prevent the horse not to be killed by any one we go and give money and buy the animal in that situation the only way is to lie down the horse to cure all the bad memories if the horse owner was me it would not reach a point so he/she would need to lie down if only a bad accident happen which has never happened in my life .
The reasons that horses need to lie down is because of us humans we are the ones which do all things wrong and we put the poor horse in a state of being so aggressive and become a man killer.
We use the lie down as last resort to prevent of killing the poor animal.
Did I answer your question or not if not please as more specific so I may answer I hope.
Mostly the horses that we put to lie down they have complex of mental problems they have very bad and harsh memory's they get so mixed up in their heads that they leave you with no choice of doing something else therefore we have to lie them down.
For all problems there is a way of fixing that problem .
If there is no other way left for you to fix the problems then you lie down a horse.
Mostly the horses that we lie down they have a complex of problems there is not one or tow or four to fix them one by one and go step by step.
Let me say what is my routine in horse What ever you want to call it lets say Horse Training The process to lei down .
The first step is horse and me together for some long time to observe each other very carefully to gain each other trust as much as we can and make a bond spending time with the horse is the most important part.
!- Sitting with the horse for days and Nights in the More Wilder space .
2- I use all the equipment that I want to use all around me and my horse all the time.
3- We make bound in the end of step 2 .
4- After 3 we establish Trust with my horse the main POINT that I want to achieve.
5-I become a lets say I never want to give it a number but I become half horse.
6- When I became a half horse and with Trust and the bound .
7- We lie down together I Will lie down with him or her we are both horses the are on the ground.
8- I am in what position that She/he is.
This is something spiritual I can not put it in words.
To lei down a horse must be spiritual , no rush and giving it a good amount of time all together.
Did I put my thoughts into words properly?
|You make such interesting points persianhorse. Why are you against competitions?|
I work with kids with special needs too! What other disabilities do you work with apart from autism? How do you go about curing autistic kids, what work do you do with them, do you work alongside someone in the medical profession? I think its facinating what you do!
The above was from some poster and you will read my answer under this line:
Some horses are not good at what they want from them , but by force they make them to do it.
Today there is a competition and I am a horse and I don't just feel up to it , they make me do it.